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Post by Jason on Dec 16, 2009 0:54:27 GMT -5
The topic is a bit misleading. I've only got a top 3, here.  But I'd love to see your top 5!
3) Peyton Manning
Out of all the quarterbacks in the league right now, this guy defines the word "leadership". He's a fantastic team leader, incredibly accurate, a Super Bowl MVP and is still going. Quarterbacks of the 80s should be proud of Peyton Manning. You don't see hardly any quarterbacks today take the game into his hands and lead the team to victory. A fierce passing machine.
2) Dan Marino
I can go on forever about this guy. Although he had a rather horrid offense for nearly his entire career, he still put fear in the hearts of all the players and fans of the opposing team. Whenever Dan Marino is in the game, the Dolphins always had a chance to win it. It's a shame he never received that rock on his finger that he diligently worked for throughout his career. But his legacy will always live on. The first quarterback to reach 50,000 and 60,000 passing yards, more passing yards in one season than any other quarterback, 13 400 yard games and 420 touchdowns. Dan Marino is one of the most talented quarterbacks to ever play the game. You won't see many, if any, quarterbacks with the accuracy of Dan Marino. To say he's not among the best is lunacy.
1) John Elway
John Elway, in my opinion, is the greatest quarterback to ever play the game. Similar to Marino, Elway had a rather horrible offense throughout most of his career. His own offensive line was always an obstacle to overcome, allowing Elway to be sacked 516 times. More sacks than any other quarterback in the history of the NFL. Yet, with a horrible offense for 14 seasons, he took Denver to 4 AFC Championship games, 3 Super Bowls, and led Denver to an astounding 47 4th quarter comebacks. More than any quarterback in NFL history. John Elway was one of the most feared quarterbacks to ever play the game. In 16 NFL seasons, Elway only had two losing seasons in his entire career, made the playoffs 10 times, played in 6 AFC Championships and 5 Super Bowls. More than any other quarterback in NFL history. To reach such a feat with the team he had is beyond incredible. John Elway finished his storybook career as the NFL's Super Bowl MVP. He truly went out in a blaze of glory.
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Post by Man in Black on Dec 16, 2009 15:36:31 GMT -5
This is really hard for me. I'm much quicker to put up my running backs.
I won't say this often and most people would probably take it wrong, but I don't see Dan Marino as the top "quarterback" of all time. I would rather see him play more than any other QB, but he lacked a few things in my criteria for ranking quarterbacks. (The ability to run, and the knowledge of plays) That said, I don't think there is another passer even remotely close to Marino. I have many of his games on tape and I've watched them many times. I've rewound plays over and over and I still can't believe the throws he made during every single game.
Favre has made throws that Dan has, Manning, Elway even some of the lesser knowns have made some of those throws. But, consistently Marino put balls in between defenders hands in double coverage, triple coverage and 50 yards down field. (This partially translates to one of the reasons he would not be a top my QB list.) Marino had the arm strength of Elway, Manning, Moon, Cunningham; but he also had a release and accuracy that were unmatched by any. He never had a 1,000 yard rusher and never had a top receiver (Duper and Clayton were products of Dan's arm) and his defenses were always horrible. Of all the top QB he did more, and way more, with way less.
The one QB challenge that I watched him in he destroyed everyone else. Even against Randall Cunningham in the running drill where you run through obstacles to get closer to the target to make a throw. Marino never bothered running. He just threw the ball and hit the target dead center. Nobody was more accurate than Dan and for me that is why he is my favorite QB and I was lucky enough for him to play for my Dolphins.
Notable omissions - Brett Favre - amazing to watch, but a headache to the head coach. Too many interceptions for me that lost too many games for his team when wins are what it's all about.
Jim Kelly - A guy that I really wish had won just one of those 4 Super bowls, I always wanted him, Elway and Marino to get one... thank goodness John got one for the greatest era of QB's ever.
Randall Cunningham, Ken Anderson, Dan Fouts, Kurt Warner, Boomer Easiason, Bernie Kosar, Roger Staubach, Ken Stabler, Jim Plunkett, Phil Simms and Drew Brees... my hats off to all of you.
I never got to see Johnny Unitas play, nor Sonny Jorgenson or Joe Namath so I'll stick to the ones that I know and rank them. A note that I must add is that to me there is a tremendous gap between 3 and 4... meaning that my top 3 are in a different stratosphere in my opinion.
5. [[Steve Young]]/[[Joe Montana]] - I'll have to cheat and put these two in as a tie. If I had to take one at the beginning of his career to start a franchise it would be Young because given the time and tools Montana had I think Steve would have surpassed Joe. And man were they both fun to watch. Montana was maybe the smartest QB ever until Manning came along. I am glad Young got that monkey off his back. If I played QB in the NFL I would probably pattern my style after Steve Young.
4. [[Tom Brady]] - Why, Jason, did you make me do this lol... I don't like it one bit. He replaced one of my favorite players (Bledsoe) and then proved that he was better. I never thought I'd see a cooler QB under pressure than Montana... Brady is. He can throw farther, harder and is as accurate. Until he got Randy Moss he had nowhere near the targets that Joe did.
3. [[John Elway]] - This one is hard for me. And maybe it is because of some bias that I put Marino ahead, but I do have reasons at least in my head that are truthful. Elway plain and simply was a baller. He might go a whole game with nothing going on and then by God in the 4th quarter he'd take the game from you... and he'd run you over to do it if he had to. Those legs and that grit are why I have him here over others who might have had similar passing skills. He took the Broncos to like a zillion Super bowls and I'm glad he finally got the team around him to win one.
To put into perspective the difference between Elway and so many greats before him... Jim Kelly lost 4 Super Bowls that Elway would have won with a similar team... don't believe me... well, he did it twice. You don't think Elway and Marino were drooling over the tools Kelly had - Thurman Thomas, Andre Reed and that lights out defense.
2. [[Dan Marino]] - I've already praised him above so I'll be... shortER. Trent Dilfer, Jeff Hostetler and Brad Johnson have more SB rings than Dan... Terry Bradshaw had half a million rings and he's in nobody's top list... so let's just leave that argument out of the equation. People who bring that up as a reason to leave Dan out of the discussion lose my ear immediately because it has little to do with the facts. For years I listened to the Marino/Montana debate and I'm glad people have finally quieted down about that nonsense. If you switch the two QBs in the SB they were in... the only difference would be that 49er Marino would have broken every SB passing record you can think of.
Dan Marino had the worst team around him for his entire career than any of these guys and he still was a 1st ballot HOFer. Even Elway wasn't considered in the top echelon until he won a SB (Which was stupid) and Denver had an awesome team those two years. Terrell Davis was a beast with 2,000 yards... nothing against Elway, but I would have killed for Marino to have had a chance like that. I only slightly have Dan in front of Elway because given similar recieving talent and the same time in the league - Marino had better numbers.
1. [[Peyton Manning]] - I have watched this dude since his days at Tennessee. I actually sneaked in one of his bowl games during my honeymoon (on TV not live). He is like a robo-quarterback to me. He has everything: the size and strength, the arm, the accuracy, the quick feet... and he puts it all together with a work and study ethic that will likely never be duplicated. Like a Miami team without Marino... the Colts are nothing without Manning. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne pretty much owe their fame to him and Edgerrin James has an outside shot at the Hall because defenses were so afraid of number 18. I don't know how many rings he'll end up with, but I hope it's more than one... I can say that the most important Peyton Manning fact to me is the Division Realignment. What? You might say... well they moved the Colts out of the AFC East and my Dolphins don't have to face that son of a b#% two times a year!
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Post by Jason on Dec 16, 2009 17:53:36 GMT -5
Wow, we have the same top 3! Just ordered a bit differently. For a while, I hated Peyton Manning so much. We went to the playoffs, I think, 2 or 3 years straight and each time, we faced the Colts and they blew us out. I just wish we had the team we had during the Super Bowl era. Or at least just had John Elway. So we would at least be IN the game. He's just so good. When I put together a top QB list, EVERYTHING comes into play. Leadership, arm strength, accuracy, scrambling, passing yards, touchdowns, the caliber team. In my opinion, I don't have Tom Brady anywhere near the top 5. At least not yet. Leadership? I see absolutely Ø leadership in Brady. After every loss, he never shakes hands with the opposing team. He stomps off like a child and waits for his team in the locker room. As of late, it seems like he's having trouble figuring out what to do under pressure. Notice in the Miami game, he did what Jay Cutler normally does. Throws the ball up for grabs in hopes of avoiding a sack. He's definitely got the strength and accuracy. Passing yards and touchdown passes have gotten higher (mostly since Moss came along, though). He's got quite a bit of work to do to earn his way to the top, in my opinion. I believe Brees is a better quarterback than Brady. I can honestly say that I would bet all the money in the world that Brady could never do what Brees is doing with the team he has. Brees turned his receiving core into STUDS. Most guys people have never heard of are now becoming household names. Brees is the greatest quarterback at spreading the ball. 5 touchdowns with 5 different receivers in one game? That scores major points for top quarterback in my book. And lots of points in the game, too. ;D He's a great leader and a tremendous passer. I've always enjoyed watching Brees, and I'll have to admit this. I was hoping they would trade Jay Cutler for Drew Brees. I never thought they would do it, and I was pretty bummed when we got Kyle Orton, but we really did scam Chicago. I would've felt bad, but all the Bears fans everywhere I read would make fun of Denver for giving Cutler up. He leads the league in interceptions now. He's definitely got potential to be among the best, but he's a long way from being a top quarterback right now. Chicago's gotta be kicking themselves for the deal they made. they gave us two number 1 picks!! If they'll buy that, we've got a cheese factory in Green Bay we'd like to sell. ;D ;D |
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Post by Man in Black on Dec 17, 2009 16:17:38 GMT -5
Ha, just think about us Dolphins fans when we had our pick between Brees and Culpepper... and Nick (I'm not taking the Alabama job) Saban takes a broken Culpepper... because he has a cool name I guess.
And believe me, I've said a few bad words as Manning has knocked off some of Dan's numbers. I would rather Peyton earn the records honestly though than to see Favre get them all just because he plays 10 years longer than everybody else. I like Brett, a lot, but like I said he's not in that top tier to me. And any of them is better than Brady having them. I think Brady is slowing down a bit, but he'll probably be back for a few runs unfortunately - I just think my Fins may be readier this time.
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Post by Jason on Dec 17, 2009 17:29:26 GMT -5
I would guess that Brady's best years are behind him.
I know what you mean about seeing Dan's records broken. I swear I'll be swearing if Brett ever catches up to Elway in 4th quarter comebacks.
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Post by Man in Black on Dec 17, 2009 23:04:22 GMT -5
Manning has to be cursing his D under his breath tonight. Looks like they are going to escape anyway... darn it. I wish they would lose already so I can pull for them. After all Dan's records are falling I can't really stand to have any company in Perfectville ;D It's our thing. Pitt has all the SB's, the Niners, Cowboys and Pats have the dynasty stuff. We haven't been to a SB since the SF defeat so us Fins have to hold on to something ;D
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Post by Jason on Dec 19, 2009 17:55:11 GMT -5
I know what you mean. Denver has only seen ONE playoff victory since 1998.... Ugggggh....
I was extremely annoyed when Jacksonville completed that huge pass, then the officials called a late false start that caused Jacksonville to punt and Indy the win...
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Post by Man in Black on Dec 20, 2009 23:51:37 GMT -5
I know right? Like Manning needs any help ;D
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Post by Jason on Jan 25, 2010 22:23:16 GMT -5
When I first saw your list, I was very surprised to see that you had Marino behind Manning. Like I said before, my methods travel so deeply into the concept of rankings. It just makes the way I rank them seem much, much more accurate and correct (To me, of course).
Here's why I have Marino ahead of Manning.
Statistically, Marino mops the floor with Manning. I could list half of his major accomplishments and he'd probably still be ahead.
Peyton's had a fantastic receiving core throughout his career. Marvin Harrison and Reggie Wayne were always there when he needed them. Harrison and Wayne were, easily, much better receivers than Marino's ever had. Marino's best receivers ever were Duper and Clayton. Pretty good receivers at best. Also, I take into account how protected receivers are today, compared to how they were in the 80s. To even guess that a guy would finish with over 61,000 yards at that time in the NFL is completely unheard of.
As for running backs, Manning was blessed with a great running scheme throughout his career, as well. He even had Marshall Faulk for one year, but I'll let that one go, seeing as the Colts went 3-13. Joseph Addai, Dominic Rhodes and Edgerin James have been at his side throughout his entire career. Addai, Rhodes and James were, easily, much better running backs than Marino's ever had, as well. Marino only had one 1,000 yard rusher throughout his entire 17 season career (Abdul-Jabbar, gaining just barely over 1,000), whereas Manning has had nine 1,000 yard rushers in just 12 seasons. Quite a running tandem to open up that passing game, wouldn't you say? ;D
Neither has had a consistently great defense. When compared, Marino's defense finished among the bottom 5 six times, among the bottom 10 ten times or among the bottom half of the league more seasons than Manning has even played.
Marino carried his team on his back throughout his entire career. It's a shame he never got a break with receivers like Harrison or Wayne, or running backs like James, Rhodes or Addai. If Marino had guys like that throughout his career and a more passer friendly system like today, I guarantee he'd have more than one ring.
Don't get me wrong, Manning is edging closer and closer to the #2 spot, but he's still got quite a few leaps and bounds to catch up to Marino. If he ever even does. Right now, the #1 and #2 quarterbacks are just set apart from everyone else.
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Post by Man in Black on Jan 28, 2010 7:47:45 GMT -5
Hey, I'm won't argue with you lol... nobody has ever and will ever throw like Marino... I have at some forgotten point seperated QB and Passer in my ranks. And you are definitely right about the recievers. Manning has the better ones I'm sure. Marino made Duper and Clayton no doubt. But, Wayne, Harrison and Edge wouldn't like their numbers without #18.
On another note, I'm feeling better and better about my ranking of Favre. He's deserving of being on my top 10 list (well who isn't really lol) but he definitely solidified his place behind my top 5 this year... like you said though - In my opinion. And I guess it helps me in the long run that Brett broke Marino's records because now I can truly enjoy it when Manning blow by him.
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Post by Jason on Jan 28, 2010 12:02:55 GMT -5
It's funny, because Brett has sank pretty far in my rankings. I don't know how I could ever put him ahead of Montana. |
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Post by Jason on Jan 28, 2010 12:36:01 GMT -5
On a side note, I was cheering for the Saints with almost half the passion I would be if it were the Broncos(doesn't sound like much, but it is ). I really didn't wanna see Favre get another ring this way. I was so thrilled when he threw that 4th quarter pick. But now that everything's settled, I feel pretty bad for him. The Vikings fans, too. The Vikings broadcaster (I can only assume it's a Vikings broadcaster ;D ) blew his top after that pick. I just barely saw it, right now. His voice gets louder and louder. www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d81601485&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true |
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Post by Man in Black on Jan 30, 2010 9:13:39 GMT -5
I agree with you. I felt pretty much the same way. I really wanted it for the Saints because they've never done anything before. I don't think they will win it, but then I didn't think they would beat Arizona either.
Brett fought really hard in that game and he doesn't need to hang his head about that last pick. His whole team was laying the ball on the ground like it was stinky shit the entire game lol...
The Vikes just choked like they always have before #4 ever got there. It wasn't his fault they lost again, but he didn't go out there and win it for them like an Elway or Manning would have.
They should have beat the Saints easy with the talent they have across the board. But then that goes into another discussion of how Sean Payton is a genius and I have a hard time even remembering who the Vikings coach is lol...
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Post by Jason on Mar 16, 2010 20:57:47 GMT -5
I've always felt that Dan Marino and John Elway were so dead even at #1 and #2 that it may just be me as a Bronco fan that gave Elway the definitive nod at #1. It's funny, after I made that list, I looked at a ton of other lists of my own and I noticed that many had Elway and Marino at 1 and 2 and they said the same thing I said. Vice versa. It makes me happy that I'm not the only one that feels this way about these two quarterbacks.
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Post by Man in Black on Mar 17, 2010 9:28:29 GMT -5
I've been thinking about this list some too. Manning slipped a bit in my mind after his playoff and SB performance. He should have ripped that Saints defense to shreds - it was there for him and he played poorly... I'm sure he's not done though. And our boy Brees really showed me something this year. I think you are right, he will be talked about with the legends very soon. On the Marino and Elway thing I've been thinking too - especially about where Marino stands in the eyes of the media. The importance of SB's is so blown out of proportion. People who base their rankings of Dan by how his team did in SB's is so hypocritical. Anybody in their right mind and half of the brain dead people can take a look back at the stats of the Dolphins while Marino was playing and see that he had the worst team of any top qb during his entire career. He never had a defense at all. He never had one single 1000 yard rusher and yet he still helped Don Shula become the winningest coach in history. If you were to go consistently by the criteria of SB count then Marino is not even the best quarterback for the Dolphins as Bob Griese has two rings. And then I'm supposed to believe that these guys below are better quarterbacks than Marino... or even Esiason, Moon, Fouts, Kosar, Cunningham, Kelly etc... Jeff Hostetler, Mark Rypien, Trent Dilfer, Jim McMahon, Doug Williams, Brad Johnson, Phil Simms... HOSTETLER for crying out loud! I remember very clearly how Elway was not considered a top 5 qb by alot of critics before his 2 SB wins, which is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. He put in his greatest work well before those 2 wins. It used to piss Elway off too, I remember him getting hot in interviews when the conversation turned in that direction and I couldn't blame him a bit. And just one thing to end this tirade on... think about this - Jim Kelly would have been a better quarterback if Norwood had'nt been wide right?  That's right buddy, you hang your head...
it's your fault Jim isn't the best quarterback of all time! Sorry I needed a nice rant  |
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